Is there any etymological connection between Odin and Merlin?
Seems like a weird question but the connection to 'madness' you mention piqued my interest. I know Odin is derived from roots meaning "mad inspiration". Merlin also possesses other contextual connections to Odin:
- Odin places a sword in a tree as a test in the Saga of the Volsungs (Merlin in a stone).
- Odin is a God associated with Kings and providing instruction to Kings - Merlin's primary role is as a counselor to King Arthur.
- Merlin possesses prophetic wisdom - Odin is a seeker of prophetic knowledge.
- Odin is also known to disguise himself.
- Modern depictions of Merlin mirror Odin's typical garb less the missing eye (pointy hat, robes, beard)
Not trying to say they're the exact same - just curious if there is any etymological evidence attaching Merlin to Odin.
Odin and Merlin appear to have semantically similar names, but the names don't seem to be etymologically connected. It's pretty common cross-culturally, however, for madness and prophetic powers to be semantically linked to each other.
'But two places from France are recorded in medieval charters that feature the name Merlin: Merlincampus ‘Merlin’s field’ and Merlini Mons ‘Merlin’s hill’.
Years ago I was dating a girl from Rennes in Brittany, one day she took me for a drive and we ended up in some woods where she proceeded to show me a fenced off Stone (if i remember rightly) with a plaque stating Merlins burial place!
I have fond memories of what Mary Stewart did with some of this material (using plenty of creative license) in "The Crystal Cave," "The Hollow Hills," and "The Last Enchantment." My sense is that those books aren't read as much as they once were, which is too bad.
Your honest analysis and easy to follow style is very refreshing. I love the subject of Arthur and Merlin and their links with ancient Welsh or British history. As well as the connection with the monuments at Stonehenge. However as soon as I saw the myth concerning the two dragons and the boar, it only strengthened my belief that the legend was brought here from overseas. This legend has the ring of Norse Mythology attached to it, that in turn mimics the Greek legends we now assume are mythological stories made up by our ancestors.
As a codebreaker yourself it would be interesting to know what you truly think of these legends, and from where they originate. Although I don't expect an answer from you here.
I always thought that story of the two dragons was a bit rubbish. I mean, the pool alone would cause subsidence and make the fort fall down. Why invent dragons …. (Says she who writes a fantasy about mythical sea dragons, ahem.)
The post I wrote earlier on the prophecy of the two dragons explains what I think has gone on; see https://ageofarthur.substack.com/p/the-prophecy-of-the-two-dragons. I think its an adaption of the story of the wise builders in the New Testament inspired by the cistern archaeologists found at Dinas Emrys in the 1950s
So if I understand you Eliflu Cascordmaur would mean 'great host of the great warband,' which seems redundant. Would anyone in this context know or care that eleutheria simply means freedom in Greek, and Eleutherius a freed slave?
Emrys is the name given to the boy in the tale of the two dragons recorded in the ninth-century Historia Brittonum and it is recorded in the modern Welsh name Dinas Emrys. It's generally been thought that Geoffrey of Monmouth just renamed Emrys as Merlin.
A brilliant deep dive—fascinating how linguistic analysis reshapes the Merlin origin story while still leaving space for myth, madness, and medieval memory
Is there any etymological connection between Odin and Merlin?
Seems like a weird question but the connection to 'madness' you mention piqued my interest. I know Odin is derived from roots meaning "mad inspiration". Merlin also possesses other contextual connections to Odin:
- Odin places a sword in a tree as a test in the Saga of the Volsungs (Merlin in a stone).
- Odin is a God associated with Kings and providing instruction to Kings - Merlin's primary role is as a counselor to King Arthur.
- Merlin possesses prophetic wisdom - Odin is a seeker of prophetic knowledge.
- Odin is also known to disguise himself.
- Modern depictions of Merlin mirror Odin's typical garb less the missing eye (pointy hat, robes, beard)
Not trying to say they're the exact same - just curious if there is any etymological evidence attaching Merlin to Odin.
Odin and Merlin appear to have semantically similar names, but the names don't seem to be etymologically connected. It's pretty common cross-culturally, however, for madness and prophetic powers to be semantically linked to each other.
There is no etymological relationship.
'But two places from France are recorded in medieval charters that feature the name Merlin: Merlincampus ‘Merlin’s field’ and Merlini Mons ‘Merlin’s hill’.
Years ago I was dating a girl from Rennes in Brittany, one day she took me for a drive and we ended up in some woods where she proceeded to show me a fenced off Stone (if i remember rightly) with a plaque stating Merlins burial place!
Yes, they have a similar love for all things Arthurian in Brittany as the Welsh do.
the same people
I have fond memories of what Mary Stewart did with some of this material (using plenty of creative license) in "The Crystal Cave," "The Hollow Hills," and "The Last Enchantment." My sense is that those books aren't read as much as they once were, which is too bad.
I really enjoyed this.
Your honest analysis and easy to follow style is very refreshing. I love the subject of Arthur and Merlin and their links with ancient Welsh or British history. As well as the connection with the monuments at Stonehenge. However as soon as I saw the myth concerning the two dragons and the boar, it only strengthened my belief that the legend was brought here from overseas. This legend has the ring of Norse Mythology attached to it, that in turn mimics the Greek legends we now assume are mythological stories made up by our ancestors.
As a codebreaker yourself it would be interesting to know what you truly think of these legends, and from where they originate. Although I don't expect an answer from you here.
I always thought that story of the two dragons was a bit rubbish. I mean, the pool alone would cause subsidence and make the fort fall down. Why invent dragons …. (Says she who writes a fantasy about mythical sea dragons, ahem.)
The post I wrote earlier on the prophecy of the two dragons explains what I think has gone on; see https://ageofarthur.substack.com/p/the-prophecy-of-the-two-dragons. I think its an adaption of the story of the wise builders in the New Testament inspired by the cistern archaeologists found at Dinas Emrys in the 1950s
So if I understand you Eliflu Cascordmaur would mean 'great host of the great warband,' which seems redundant. Would anyone in this context know or care that eleutheria simply means freedom in Greek, and Eleutherius a freed slave?
There isn't much evidence of knowledge of Greek in Wales at the time -- and Eleutherius was the name of several saints, martyrs and a Pope.
That’s great thank you for that. Do you know anything about Merlin’s alias of Emrys (if indeed that’s how it is)?
Emrys is the name given to the boy in the tale of the two dragons recorded in the ninth-century Historia Brittonum and it is recorded in the modern Welsh name Dinas Emrys. It's generally been thought that Geoffrey of Monmouth just renamed Emrys as Merlin.
Thank you!
A brilliant deep dive—fascinating how linguistic analysis reshapes the Merlin origin story while still leaving space for myth, madness, and medieval memory